How far can you go back in time, and assume an accurate sample with carbon dating?
It seems limited, how can an observer know the state of the decay of a certain molecular structure evencalendar years ago? Could there be other influences that would affect the rate of decay of carbon 14? If it has generally been established as a constant, at what point does the "constant" break down? The constant, that is the Strong Nuclear Force, is absolute.
It'd have to be, it's what controls radioactivity and all other nuclear reactions. If we surmise that the Strong Nuclear Force can change, then we to explain why the Sun is still there. A bit in one way, the rate of fusion goes through the roof and the Sun blows itself apart.
A bit in the other, the rate of fusion drops and the Sun collapses. Where "A bit" is a few parts in a trillion or less, most likely very much less. Carbon has a half-life of 5, years so decays fairly quickly to unusable proportions. We also need to calibrate how much carbon it had to begin with. To do that we need records of how much was being made from nitrogen.
To do that we need samples of atmospheric gas, from ice cores or solar activity from tree rings, etc. If we're a bit depleted in nitrogen, then we know it's become carbon We can get reasonable accuracy to 50, years, better accuracy more recently. This calibration is what limits the accuracy because we know that with a given amount of carbon, it absolutely will decay at a very tightly controlled rate. Now, on to the next question, who held the stop watch at the Big Bang?
Unfortunately, I was not able to attend that event, due to prior schedule conflicts. Originally posted by spoof: Oh, I remember you being there. You were just to hot to be sapient. Originally posted by Hat Monster: Isn't beta decay controlled by the weak force? Originally posted by Chuckles: Yes, it's all coalescing now, unfortunately, it merely seems like a dream. Science cannot tell time. It can set a frame, or a parameter for the occurence of one event or another, but it has only the most recent reference for the age of any matter whatsoever.
We have only arbitrary concepts of the age of matter as we know it. That's, to be as nice as I can, a pile of bullshit tall enough to be an aviation hazard. Originally posted by UserJoe: Also the reason that the neutrino and it's antiparticle interact infrequently. That's right, it's the How far back can carbon dating work force that governs beta decay.
My error, but doesn't detract from the post's content. The technique for carbon dating is being refined to the point it is believed that reasonable accuracy may be achieved back toyears ago. Carbon dating works, btw, by comparing the ratio of C 14 to C The further back you go, the harder it gets to discern that difference accurately. Now, I'm interested to know what other radio-isotopes we can use to date old stuff.
Like old rocks, for instance. Isotopic systems that have been exploited for radiometric dating have half-lives ranging only about 10 years e. Also, I believe potassium-argon is fairly common dating mechanism.
Here is wikipedia's page on the
How far back can carbon dating work Radiometric dating they have a whole slew of dating mechanisms. OK, I'll admit it's a pile of bullshit, however, if you can't date anything with physical evidence even toyears, then no one has any idea how old lots of things are.
I'm not pushing some creationist angle here, they just like to pick nice "round" numbers.
No, I'll take scientific observations any day of the week, it's just that so much of science must, as a discipline, base their observations on the painstaking recording of observable physical data. When no observer is present, can we comfortably assume anything about the physical state of the universe at a time when no recorded physical data is available? To merely observe the physics of atomic structures in the "here and now" and then state that "it's always been like this", seems somewhat presumptive.
The statement was that you can't use C dating for accuracy of overyears. However there are lots of other methods for radiometric dating available. Physical data like rock layers? Like types of rocks? Like the speed of light? Do you have a testable theory as to why this would not be the case? Science can provide rationale for the dating stated. Doubting simply so you can wag your finger and say "Nuh uh" isn't having an open mind -- it's How far back can carbon dating work being contrary.
Originally posted by zeotherm: Radiometric dating they have a whole slew of dating mechanisms Excellent, thankyou.
Yes, science bases its theories and concepts around concrete facts. Even if there was some sort of Watcher race that stood in front of me and said that he was alive 10 billion years ago and bore witness to the birth of my planet, I would still insist on evidence.
As a scientist, word of mouth means absolute nothing to me. Scientific statements need to be backed up by actual data. Well, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Forget your miffed dismissal of the current thought on the history of the universe. You postulate that the laws of physics may not be constant. The next step, using the scientific method, would be to come up with an experiment that would elicit a recordable change.
In this specific case, try to manipulate the environment around a radioactive element to effect a change in the half-life constant. Now take that to the next step, to effect such a change you would need to effect the Weak Force directly within an atom or group of atoms.
So a revised, and more scientific, of your OP would be: Can the Weak Force within an atom be effected? Are half-life constants truely constant? I have no idea what the answer is off the top of my head, but my intelligent guess says that this topic has already been researched and literature exists on it. It was no doubt an important question when dating first took off. I find ranty non-scientific curt dismissals of theories with this sort of attitude half baked and highly aggravating. It's like a little kid turning their nose up their parent cause they think they know better.
Originally posted by BuckG: Grrr Very much so. It's even more aggravating when you look at the attitude that it tends to come with: Therefore, I am actually considering more than you arewhich makes me better than you mere "scientists".
I don't care if I have no idea how you could be wrong, I am smarter merely by suggesting you are mistaken. Fair enough, instead of opinionating, we'll just stick with the data from How far back can carbon dating work on out. As it should be. Therefore, I am actually considering more than you are, which makes me better than you mere "scientists". As Hat Monster already pointed out, if these things were only slightly different from what they are now, the universe would be a vastly different place.
There was a special on PBS about the universe, particles, strign theory, etc that covered this topic quite well. Basically, by making even a small change in any fundamental particle, the whole puzzle gets tossed out the window.
A good number of the subatomic particles we know about were calculated mathematically before they were ever discovered via observation. Heck, this is exactly why we are building the LHC. I don't think it was The Elegant Universe, but it could have been.
Thanks to relativity or, even without it, for a paragraph or two, just observing that there is a speed of light of such-and-so velocitywe can observe the heavens and realize that observing the heavens is also viewing a time machine. Astrophysics is not my discipline, to say the least, but even though a lot of what we look at it very large, many important things we observe are all still driven by physics.
If the basic constants of the universe weren't, in fact, constant, we'd observe effects out there in deep space or maybe not so deep space that would be inexplicable. If we add relativity to the mix, we have even less reason to expect to see this and, in fact we don't.
Because time is relative. No two particles who might have come into existence long after the big bang have any idea of what "time" it "really is". So, they don't know when to behave according to different laws of phyiscs than those we observe today. It isn't because today is so magical, then, but rather because it isn't "today" everywhere in the universe that allows us to conclude that what physicists claim are constants in terms of How far back can carbon dating work physics and so on are as they say they are.
And, actual observations back that up. This is all the more remarkable given that we can observe at energy levels and wavelengths that are beyond our ability to directly see. Radiocarbon dating is a method for determining the age of an object containing organic material by using the properties of radiocarbon, a radioactive isotope of carbon.
The method was developed in the late s by Willard Libby, who received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his work in C (the period of time after which half of a given sample will have decayed) is. Carbon dating is used to work out the age of organic material — in effect, any to non-radioactive carbon, the amount of carbon decay can be is that tree rings provide a direct record that only goes as far back as about.
How far back can carbon dating work
How far can you go back in time, and assume an accurate sample with. Carbon dating works, btw, by comparing the ratio of C14 to C
Radiocarbon dating likewise referred to as carbon dating or carbon dating is a method suited for determining the age of an intent containing structured material via using the properties of radiocarbon Impolite, a radioactive isotope of carbon. The method was developed in the new s nigh Willard Libby , who received the Nobel Gain in Chemistry for his work in It is based on the fact that radiocarbon 14 C is constantly being created in the mood by the interaction of cosmic rays with atmospheric nitrogen.
The resulting 14 C combines with atmospheric oxygen to form radioactive carbon dioxide , which is incorporated into plants by photosynthesis ; animals then obtain 14 C by eating the plants. When the animal or plant dies, it stops exchanging carbon with its environment, and from that point ahead the amount of 14 C it contains begins to let up as the 14 C undergoes radioactive decay. Measuring the amount of 14 C in a experience from a dead undercover or unrefined such as a composition of wood or a fragment of bone provides information that can be used to calculate when the being or impress died.
The older a sample is, the circumcised 14 C there is to be detected, and because the half-life of 14 C the years of every so often after which half of a acknowledged sample command have decayed is on every side 5, years, the oldest dates that can be reliably prudent by that process boy to adjacent to 50, years ago, although special preparation methods again permit conscientious analysis of older samples. Research has been ceaseless since the s to determine what the expanse of 14 C in the air has anachronistic over the past fifty thousand years.
The resulting data, in the aspect of a calibration curve, is up to date used to convert a given capacity of radiocarbon in a sample into an guesstimate of the sample's annals age.
Other corrections sine qua non be made to history for the proportion of 14 C in distinguishable types of organisms fractionation , and the varying levels of 14 C throughout the biosphere reservoir effects.
Additional complications break apart from the burning of fossil fuels such as coal and oil, and from the above-ground atomic tests fulfilled in the s and s.
How far can you go break in time, and assume an accurate sample with carbon dating? It seems limited, how can an observer know the circumstances of the decay of a certain molecular structure even Ban, calendar years ago? Could there be other influences that would affect the rate of deteriorate of carbon 14?
If it has generally been established as a constant, at what focus does the "constant" break down? The constant, that is the Strong Nuclear Force, is through-and-through.
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Carbon Dating: (How) Does It Work?
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- Radiocarbon dating can easily establish that humans have been on the earth for over twenty thousand years, at least twice as long as creationists are willing to allow.
- Radiocarbon dating is a method for determining the age of an object containing organic material by using the properties of radiocarbon, a radioactive isotope of carbon. The method was developed in the late s by Willard Libby, who received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his work in C (the period of time after which half of a given sample will have decayed) is.
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Did I get played?Radiocarbon dating is a method of what is known as “Absolute Dating”. wood from two Egyptian Pharaohs and dated them; the results came back to within what far more accurate dates for a far smaller sample (9); this made destruction of. Here is how carbon dating works and the assumptions it is based upon. Radiation from the sun strikes the atmosphere of the earth all day long. The C- 14 in the plant or animal will begin to decay back to normal nitrogen..
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